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2005-03-01 [Kyrinn]: Did someone hear something? Still have your head in a dark place?
2005-03-01 [Maurer's conclusions]: Your consistence in changing the subject whenever anyone points out flaws in your reasoning simply proves that it is you, not everyone else, who is politically uneducated.
2005-03-01 [Kyrinn]: Look you little twirp. I do a lot of reading and I follow the news, so dont be calling me uneducated. I am concerned for my country, because there are so many of YOU out there, the ones that cant see the forest for the trees, the ones insulting the rest of the world becuase you think someone should listen to you. I pay my taxes, I read the newspaper, I keep up with the news. ppl like you make me SICK, you blame Bush for all the problems, when it is not him you should look at. Further, you do NOT live in this country, and frankly being half american does not give you the right to judge me. Why dont you just climb back into your little hole and go to Hell.
2005-03-01 [Kyrinn]: I quoted a source for my argument, a soldier who was there. And he was not the only one to say so. What is YOUR source, hmmmmm? And how does my changing the subject mean I am uneducated?
2005-03-01 [Kyrinn]: More, I dont want to waste my energy anymore on arguing with an uneducated little twirp like yourself. Once you grow a brain, then come back.
2005-03-01 [Maurer's conclusions]: My source is the logical deduction that if all Iraqis want the US-imposed democracy, then why do the insurgents and terrorists continue to blow things up?
2005-03-01 [Kyrinn]: ACTUAL source, Ertarkano, and NO you cant quote yourself, you are hardly qualified.
2005-03-01 [Ri'hala]: btw Ert, most of the insurgents there now AREN'T FROM IRAQ. They're from Al-Queda supporting groups who don't want democracy destroying the hold they have on the people.
2005-03-01 [Maurer's conclusions]: What about the ex-Baathist party members?
2005-03-01 [Ri'hala]: *points at what she said* I said 'most', Ert. Every country has their oddballs, even Iraq and America. The Ex-Baathists stand a lot to gain from destroying the democracy in Iraq.
2005-03-01 [Maurer's conclusions]: Yes, but they aren't from Al-Qaeda.
2005-03-01 [Ri'hala]: Then let me correct myself. "They're from groups with terrorist tendencies who don't want democracy destroying the hold the have on the people. " Theeeeree. That's better.
2005-03-02 [Dil*]: The gas prices in vancouver doubled in less than a decade, it's disgusting. Here I'll pull out some quotes.
2005-03-02 [Dil*]: 2005-02-20 BarleySinger: The thing is that even selfish people should be able to get the idea that the entire "oil economy" is doomed to die. Yet they are manipulating governments into warfare just to get that last bit of money that is still in the oil business. Any person (even a selfish one) with any sense would not put their cash (or start a war) over anything doomed to die. They would put their money into the most likely future replacement and own the future instead of fighting life-starving dogs, over bones left over form last month.
2005-03-02 [Dil*]: 2005-02-20 BarleySinger: Yet here we are. There is less than 20 years left of any serious crude oil being left (a conservative estimate) and the USA (the worlds biggest consumer of energy) has no future plan in place to replace its use of oil in nearly every product sold in that country. The entire economy of the western world is based on making things out of crude oil. Everything from clothing to perfume to Zoloft to carpets and shampoo are made out of crude oil. Nothing at all is being done. Coal would be a horrible choice for everyone, but it is the only one really left as a choice.
2005-03-02 [Dil*]: 2005-02-20 Barleysinger: But even if they did use that nasty radioactive coal they have, or any kind of power plant, people would have to build the power plants which takes a lot of time. Even coal (shudders) does nothing to replace the ability to make crude oil based items and neither does hydrogen power. how will people make things in a world dependent on cheap crude oil? How will they make the pharmaceutical
2005-03-02 [Dil*]: forces fix it" They really can't.
2005-03-02 [Dil*]: Short and long of all that on oil? Sure. I just summarized pax americanas. reasons why we hate bush, my section with the Dr. Gwynn Dyer's Pax Americanus
2005-03-23 [Radioactive Flea]: Oh no, not this again Dilandau. Haven't you been kicked out of enough wiki's for repeating the over liberalized "facts" against Bush?
2005-03-23 [Kyrinn]: Leave it to [Dil*] to beat a dead horse. We have discussed this before. If this war was about oil, why are we paying so much? Why dont you come up with something NEW for once instead of going back to the same damn argument. Why dont you come back when you have something NEW to say. thanks...
2005-03-23 [Radioactive Flea]: I am inclined to agree. She seems to love to go to almost any wiki myself of my younger sister are in just to tell us how wrong we are for having an opinion.
2005-03-23 [Kyrinn]: Well, it just shows me how close minded she is... We are all entitled to our own opinions, and I wont fault anyone for that, HOWEVER.. Forcing your views and opinions onto others to the point of harassment is rather... JUVENILE. I dont force my views onto anyone, Ive my opinion, and everyone else has theirs. No one is right or wrong, but when one starts to treat others of differing opinions that way, they only show how stupid they are.... Sheesh...
2005-03-23 [Radioactive Flea]: I agree entirely (and that, my friend, is rare).
2005-03-24 [Kyrinn]: *grins* Very cool. ^^
2005-03-24 [Dil*]: I never said you weren't entitled to your own opinion. I just like debating. And about that support bush wiki...I didn't exactly get kicked out, you guys threatened to report me (and friends) to the guards..so we left. It was really stupid really, it was because of all the flame wars that sprung up over nothing. The bush supporters over there usually started it first anyways..then got all whiney when we retorted. I only view harrasment as personally messaging people and demanding stuff from them. This is a public wiki.
2005-03-24 [Dil*]: Not wanting to hear other people's perspectives is close minded. And what are you talking about radioactive flea? I don't stalk you people or something, don't be ridiculous, If you see me in political debate pages; that's only because I'm active. I debate gay marriage, abortion and ect. I watch like tons of wiki's so it's probably a coincidence you see me in lots of places.
2005-03-24 [Dil*]: Ugh, more about the oil (this is long winded, but you guys asked alot) Just to keep the current oil prices is a struggle, the supplies are running out fast. Not only do they use crue oil for gas, but for almost everything, plastic, medical tools, ect. ect. Almost everything manufactured in the western world needs crude oil. There isn't an unlimited supply of it out there.
2005-03-24 [Kyrinn]: Your version of DEBATE is to beat a subject into the dirt? As I said, bring us something NEW to debate, dont rehash crap you have already debated. Otherwise it makes you look desperate to look great...
2005-03-24 [Dil*]: okay, be my guest...what debate topic? :P
2005-03-24 [Maurer's conclusions]: Welfare?
2005-03-24 [Lioness123]: I wrote an 8 page research paper about healthcare....
2005-03-24 [Dil*]: What do you support? (govt paying or self paying)?
2005-03-24 [Kyrinn]: It would be nice if the government paid for it, but I know that means a rise in taxes. Without Medicaid I could not afford my son's medication, and I have no insurance otherwise... Ive also seen too many friends who have lost their insurance becuase the companies they work for will no longer carry it. You may say that Bush is responsible for this, but his hands are tied in many ways...
2005-03-24 [Dil*]: umm, wow..that's not good. We have pretty much free healthcare up here..a dollar a month I think and we get it. If you can't afford that...if you're poor, it's completely free. The taxes are pretty high up here though. I thought you guys had a great economy (strong govt), how come they can't afford healthcare?
2005-03-24 [elfboy]: Hmmmm....
2005-03-24 [Kyrinn]: Trying to save money is all... A lot of companies are just not offering the benefits anymore, and that really has nothing to do with Government. Its because they can, and the little guy gets screwed. Plus part of my problem was a failed business that got in trouble with the IRS...
2005-03-24 [Lioness123]: the big problem is that people expect their work place to provide their healthcare, but thats very expensive and people don't wanna pay for it out of their paychecks. If you don't have money already in the bank in case of an incident and your insurance refuses to cover it (which happens ALL the time) you're screwed. The hospitals by law have to treat you if you are in critical condition, but all they have to do is stabilize you. If you have no money, you get that minimal care and then booted out the door. This free care is expensive for the hospitals so they have to make up for it by charging more for everything.
2005-03-24 [Lioness123]: I know this, I'm a nurses assistant studying to be a nurse. I believe this country is going nowhere fast when it comes to healthcare (like social security) and I really fear for my generation when it comes time for us to grow old.
2005-03-25 [Kyrinn]: As do I... My husband and I have nothing in savings, and if we did the IRS would have taken it, a hospital has to take someone regardless of their credit, and for that I am thankful. My state has an awesome healthcare plan for disadvantaged families, and my boy's insulin is covered. Without it there would be no way I could afford his medication. I know there is give and take to everything, but a lot of ppl dont realise that. They just think that there is a health care fairy that waves their magic wand, but there isnt. And it is a state to state issue, which makes it more difficult...
2005-03-25 [Lioness123]: you make a very good point, kyrinn. ALOT of people think that if the get very sick or something, the government will take care of them. Rarely is that so.
2005-03-25 [Kyrinn]: And not a lot of ppl expect healthcare plans from work anymore. The problem I had was with my husband's last job. He had a retirement fund set up, but they found reason after reason to limit the money he put into it. It wasnt a matter of money, this company made more than they ever lost, but they would find any reason to not give the employees something, like bonuses. It seemed whenever my husband's team would qualify for one, the higher-ups would suddenly find this "clause" that said they shouldnt get said bonus. Its frustrating, and this company now wonders WHY they cant keep decent workers....
2005-03-25 [Kyrinn]: I WISH the government would take care of me, I put enough back into it... ^^ I know that will never be so, though...
2005-03-25 [Lioness123]: do you have any idea how much senators and other government workers make? They never have to worry themselves about healthcare because as soon as they retire, they continue to make their same wages! America should pull them off of their high horse and get some actual reform done around here.
2005-03-25 [Kyrinn]: Yes I heard about that, and that actually makes me angry! It seems that congress cant agree on anything BUT giving themselves pay raises. Its sick and disgusting..
2005-03-25 [Lioness123]: makes me wanna run for office ;)
2005-03-25 [Kyrinn]: Yeah me too, sign me up!!!
2005-03-25 [Dil*]: Umm, from this you guys aren't exactly satisfied with it..
2005-03-25 [Cat0132]: so you cant honestly say you satisfied with your government, and if you can...wow...yo
2005-03-25 [Dil*]: I like to insult my govt, everyone does... (it's a healthy attitude i think) If people don't protest about things, then the govt will think that everything's fine.
2005-03-26 [Lioness123]: what do you guys think about that woman who's feeding tube they removed? I think they should put it back
2005-03-26 [Kyrinn]: I dont think theyshould put the tube back in, if I was in that state I would hope my husband would do the same thing for me. She has been in that state since what, 1990? No matter what the family says, she will not get better, she has to spend her entire life attached to a machine.
2005-03-26 [farfy girl]: Absolutely. The liberals love to moan and whine when heartless monsters are "tortured" and given the death penalty after slaughtering people, but they don't seem to have a problem with starving a poor woman to death. I think that they should put the feeding tube back, and get someone to investigate thoroughly what it is that her horrible husband has done to her that he doesn't want Terri to tell the world so badly. When they were attempting to give her therapy, (encouraging her to grasp a rag) he stopped them, and kept asking the doctors if "that b***" was dead yet. He is an adulterous monster, and should not be making choices for her.
2005-03-26 [Lioness123]: I think he just wants her out of the picture so he can feel better about being with his girlfriend and their children
2005-03-26 [Dil*]: What do the liberals have to do with anything? The supreme court ruled to have the feeding tube removed in the first place, and I don't think the liberals control the courts. I think they should give her one more year with actual therapy and see what happens. If nothing happens, then just pull the plug. I mean she's been in that state since 1990, but since she got ripped off of the therapy, they should give her one more chance with the therapy. Her husband's an asshole though, he's a catholic too, so another arguement for 'being religious doesn't neccessarily make you a better person'.
2005-03-26 [elfboy]: Yep.
2005-03-26 [Radioactive Flea]: Oh God, got her started again. Same thing. You're worse than Charley Brown's teacher. . whaa wahahah awwwwaaaa.
2005-03-26 [Dil*]: Do not be so rude, I don't want to start an arguement about petty things again. I'll just ignore everything you say. Now you're the one harrassing me, if you don't want to be in the discussion, just leave me alone.
2005-03-26 [Radioactive Flea]: I've only said you are the one repeating yourself.
2005-03-26 [Dil*]: On what? this is a new issue.
2005-03-26 [Radioactive Flea]: Not really, my memory spans many useless topics and this be one.*said in fake pirate accent*
2005-03-26 [Dil*]: You've lost me.
2005-03-26 [Radioactive Flea]: I manage to do that often. New topic, any new unanime art?
2005-03-26 [Dil*]: umm, photomanip in my house.
2005-03-26 [Maurer's conclusions]: Maybe a topic more relevant to the idea of this wiki page would be better.
2005-03-26 [Dil*]: Probably :)
2005-03-26 [Radioactive Flea]: (I like it anyway)
2005-03-26 [Dil*]: (thanks)
2005-04-11 [Account No Longer Active]: I support Bush and all, but I'm still kinda shady on why we are still in Iraq. Is it because we're still trying to get Usama Freak Ladin?
2005-04-11 [KimoN]: nah its cos we are sucking their earth dry of oil silly! To make us rich! wOOt!
2005-04-11 [farfy girl]: Oh yeah, that's why gas prices are skyrocketing to never-before-s
2005-04-11 [Maurer's conclusions]: No.
2005-04-11 [Dil*]: The oil, that's why. And maybe they're having problems installing a democratic govt.
2005-04-12 [Cat0132]: hello we arent there for oil, waring with a country that supplies alot (but keep in mind they are I think only (or wer I should say) 4th in the worlds oil production) of oil isn't going to get you oil, you you see us getting oil out of this? I live near 3 gas stations and the priceses are insane, I looked today for one gallon regular (at the cheapest place for miles) it was 2.13, I've never seen them that high. So if we were there for oil it cetianly backfired, but we arent that stupid, we didnt go there for oil and I am sick and tired of you and everyone of you liberals going 'it was for oil' if it was I would like to hear your explaintion as to why I have to pay over 2 dollars a gallon.
2005-04-12 [Cat0132]: and I am also tired of seeing liberal college students throwing pies at conservatives, wow that is immature.
2005-04-12 [Dil*]: Well, if you think about it, it would take a bit to seize control of the oil.
2005-04-12 [Radioactive Flea]: That's totally idiotic!
2005-04-12 [Dil*]: Also oil is not all for gas, we use it for almost everything....
2005-04-12 [Dil*]: Crude oil is limited, it's only a matter of time before it runs out. Heard of anything to replace it?? Has your govt done anything for smart (electric cars) or hydrogen fuel replacements? Why do you think that area is booming with knews? Why do you think all these car companies are investing in the 'smart cars' they know oil is running out, the situation is obviously desperate.
2005-04-12 [Radioactive Flea]: There are many things to replace crude oil and it's everywhere. Though I'll leave that one up to you to figure out.
2005-04-12 [Dil*]: Crude oil is a limited resource, we have that pat down?
2005-04-12 [Radioactive Flea]: No, something else. We call it pollution but it's a renewable source that can be used for everything that oil is used for an more. I know how to use it, but do you even know what it is?
2005-04-12 [Dil*]: http://greatch
2005-04-12 [Radioactive Flea]: Already read something to that effect. It's rather dull, just repitition of what's been said for years.
2005-04-12 [Lioness123]: actually, my boyfriend who is studying to be an electrical engineer and who is taking a Renewable resourses class, told me that there is only enough oil to last the earth another 40-60 years. So in my lifetime, I might see the end of the automobile, lawnmower, etc.
2005-04-12 [Kyrinn]: Is [Dil*] beating that horse again? Havent we discussed this issue multiple times until it has been squished? We are NOT there for the oil, for the millionth time, but the topic seems to keep going back to that issue. I have been paying more than 2.25 a gallon for gas up here for over a month now, and I live within 30 miles of an oil refinery and the Alaska Pipeline runs through my town. Its not about OIL, fer cryin out loud!!
2005-04-12 [Lioness123]: I pay $2.30 p/g
2005-04-12 [Cat0132]: average price now is 2.27...yeah we go there for oil. You dont get oil from taking over a country that supplies it, and we arent obviously, we would have better look forcing canada to drill but obviously that isnt going to happen-for whatever reason.
2005-04-13 [Radioactive Flea]: I don't blame them. I'm in Fuel Cell Technology and we're at a point where we can harness the elements and replace all need for fossil fuels.
2005-04-13 [Dil*]: How exactly are they going to replace all the plastic products?? You guys would have to go on a massive recycle program or something.
2005-04-13 [Radioactive Flea]: Lol, it's not hard.
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: Two things are worth pointing out here: 1. These folks don't understand the simple market principles of monopoly and supply and demand. 2. Bush has already admitted that there are no weapons of mass destruction (thus the newer excuse "we're there to liberate the Iraqi people"). When a few small entities own the major commodities the price rises due to a lack of competition. We took a major oil producer out of the oil market: the Iraqi government.
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: This left the now smaller group of oil producers with one less competitor.. thus they could charge a little higher price; couple that with the fact that we are quickly approaching peak oil production (after the peak we will have no alternative but to look for other sources of fuel).. and you get higher prices. The US is currently the number one oil consumer in the world, we consume an ungodly amount of the stuff with our monster trucks, SUV's, comfortably heated and cooled homes, and our absolutely gross consumption of largely unrecyled plastic products.
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: We're in a tenuous spot though: with increasing industrialisat
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: Radioactive Flea, you say we can "harness the elements".. I daresay I'm bright enough to understand any research theories you're willing to post.. go ahead and post them (links only, please). Even if we are able to "harness the elements", it does little good to harness them if we don't have the technology to fully utilise the energy we lasso.. and I think you'll admit that we're not quite at thet point yet where we can effectively use anything we might know how to "harness".. at least not on a large scale basis.
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: Kyrinn, you say it's not about the oil (though I'd say you don't fully understand simple market forces) so, tell us, what was the invasion of Iraq about. Oh.. and post proof by way of links if you don't mind. And make those non-partisan links if you please. Yes, our gas here is expensive, but it's also nowhere near as expensive as it should be.. just ask any European how much they pay. We keep reading about corruption regards the war in Iraq: corporations that have robbed taxpayers (yes.. even Bush-supportin
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: We keep reading of soldiers that come back to the US missing limbs and worse only to find their homes being repossessed, and creditors breathing down their backs, and what does congress do? Makes it easier for creditors to collect from these people.. a bill which Bush signed into law. You may blame Congress for voting a bill into law, but you have to understand that it never actually becomes law without a nod of approval from the president. You seem to think Bush can do no wrong.. but all his life he's proven quite differently. Make no mistake: history will show him to have been one of the worst, most corrupt presidents this country has ever seen.
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: The worst president in history? How do you know this, hmm? Bush has done some things as president that I have not liked, but he was and IS better than the previous pile of crap we called president. Site your sources, I am not as uninformed as you may think, [kduncan]
2005-04-13 [Maurer's conclusions]: How is he better than Clinton?
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: You dont understand military strategy. The taking of the oil wells is strategic, in the military eye. Show me the documents stating how much oil we are getting from Iraq for our troubles. Last I recall 90 percent of our oil comes from the United Arab Emerate States, which we pay for. And if ANWR in Alaska opens there is a nearly limitless resource of the oil up here in Alaska. I know what I am talking about, so dont call me uninformed (which you did by assuming I dont know about 'simple market forces')
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: Hmm, lets see.... What did CLinton do for this country? First and for most, he told us that Oral sex is not sex, and that it is ok to lie. He was a LAME DUCK president, and he was IMPEACHED. WHen 9/11 happened he was quoted as saying something to the effect of "
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: "I wish something that defining had happened in my presidency". He wanted that to happen during his time in office, he WANTED ppl to die in order for him to be 'defined'? Bush was there, he was moved, he may not be the best speaker, but the words he spoke were honest and from the heart. Clinton would play up to the camera, he was the worst....
2005-04-13 [Maurer's conclusions]: Clinton signed the Family and Medical leave act, which required large employers to allow their employees to take unpaid leave because of a family or medical emergency. He tried make peace in Ireland and in Palestine/Isra
2005-04-13 [Maurer's conclusions]: Bush is far worse than Clinton. He's such a hypocrite as well.
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: And Clinton isnt? At least Bush goes to church, its nice to see a president do so. He is a good man. At least he doesnt diddle interns. Ask any kid today what they remember about Bill Clinton. They will remember that he was a liar, an adulterer, and a hypocrite himself. and dude, he was IMPEACHED.
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: So, it was ok for Clinton to lie his pants off, then?
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: Also, he did not allow gays into the military he promoted the famous "dont ask, dont tell" policy. Our president is also trying to make peace in Palestine, but he is facing the same problems, since the ppl over there have been fighting for hundreds of years. And what IS Exec order 12958? Am I just supposed to take your word for it that it is a good thing? and as far as I am concerned the violent crime control and law enforc act is no different from the patriot act, its a law we dont need, crime is still crime. In some cases it makes an innocent into a criminal.. and most jobs already allow you to take unpaid leave, it was like that before Clinton was in office.
2005-04-13 [Maurer's conclusions]: Why should the fact that a president goes to Church have anything to do with his policy? Just because you're a churchgoer doesn't mean you're a 'good man.'
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: Kyrinn, are you aware that Bush senior had a mistress the entire time he was in the white house? Are you aware that he took his mistress with him on official presidential trips to Europe and Asia? Are you aware that he did this at taxpayer expense?
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: True, very true. but at least Bush beleives in God, and is a dedicated husband and doesnt screw around. Clinton does that and its ok. WTF is up with that? Clinton is NOT a good man, and he was a rotten president.
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: Kyrinn, are you aware that Bush senior had a mistress the entire time he was in the white house? Are you aware that he took his mistress with him on official presidential trips to Europe and Asia? Are you aware that he did this at taxpayer expense? (Note added: Obviously, this got posted twice somehow. I did not type the same statement twice.)
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: [kduncan] I heard you the first time. and that is a load of rat poo. What is your source for it? Hmmm??
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: Kyrinn, are you further aware that every single president in the short history of the US has, yes, been a church-goer. Bush does not have the presidential market on church-going cornered. Further, are you aware that the UAE is the most restrictive, punitive, conservative muslim nation in the middle east? You can be arrested and put to death for trying to preach christianity there. Did you know that Iraq was, before the US invasion, the most liberal Muslim nation in the middle east? Did you know that the UAE hated Hussein for this reason? Did you know that Iranian Kurds were in northern Iraq fighting against Hussein? Did you know that the level of freedoms women have held in Iraq
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: under Hussein's rule has actually diminished since the US invasion?
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: Kyrinn.. you have google at your fingertips. Do a google on the information and do your own research using your own sources. It's quite common knowledge. At least it is for those more informed about our past and current government officials. In today's age of abundantly available information, there is absolutely no excuse for ignorance. Members of this forum have expressed extreme ignorance about what is going on in the US and the world.. some of you don't even know who did and didn't run for office during the past presidential election, isn't that true Eldheler? When you don't even know who was on the presidential ballot in your state, you really have no right to be arguing politics.
2005-04-13 [kduncan]: mwaha.. ten to one odds they ban from from this forum.
2005-04-13 [Kyrinn]: GOOGLE is your source of information? You beleive everything you read on the internet? ACTUAL SOURCE, [kduncan], and google does NOT cut it.
2005-04-13 [Radioactive Flea]: If they were to take a step into a library maybe they'd have a bit of factual information instead of this deceptive smut.
2005-04-13 [Cat0132]: hey talking about Clinton, it comes to mind he also went to war without UN permission. No one seems to complain about THAT do they.
2005-04-13 [Cat0132]: So what I dont vote kdun, and I dont care about the green party.
2005-04-14 [Dil*]: [kduncan] is a very studied person. No you won't get kicked out of here, I mean, hell I'd be chucked out ages ago ^^. I don't think being a church goer makes one a better person. There are plenty of decent atheist or other religion people out there. I mean atheists are still a minority :P. Also you have to keep in mind he might be doing all this bible stuff for propaganda. I mean, this is a guy who says god wanted him to be president. There are tons and tons of books written about how bush is the worst president in history. Written by well read, studied university graduates and whatnot. I may not know everything about this particular topic, but one must wonder why he is so hated amo
2005-04-14 [Dil*]: among these highly intelligent people. Also the sheer psychology explains alot. Has anyone wondered why not many people like bush outside of america?? It's because we're jealous?? Hardly. We just don't get the media tool like you guys. We get both sides of it, we don't get propaganda. Why would anyone want to convince people that you guys have a worthless president? We have nothing to gain, but bush has everything to gain from making the public think he's going to Iraq for a just cause. He has everything to gain. But some things should have backfired on him by now. IE: The main causes of war. WMD, and Saddam having ties with Osama. All lies btw, shouldn't it get you guys thinking?
2005-04-14 [kduncan]: Eldheler, I seem to remember you arguing that David Cobb wasn't on the Massachusettes presidential ballot because your mother (who does vote) said he wasn't. If you don't even know who is running for president, how can you possibly have any kind of understanding as to who the better candidate might be? Ignorance has no place in politics, and people who can't even bother to take the time to be informed about who is running for office really shouldn't be voting.
2005-04-14 [kduncan]: Kyrinn, google as a source of material may not cut it, but many of the sources it points to do cut it. Google is not a source of material, but rather a research tool. It points to rather valid sources of information: NY Times, New England Journal of Medicine, Newsweek, Wall Street Week, US government documents and the like. If you don't like google, go to a library and look information up the hard way if you so choose.. google just happens to be more convenient; however, if convenience turns you off.. go ahead and do your research the hard way. Step into a library, Radioactive Flea? I was a friggin reasearch assistant in university, which means I've spent a little time in a library.
2005-04-15 [Dil*]: Just went to www.moorewatch
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: Eldheler, you say you "don't care" about the Green party; however, when I pointed out to you the ten key values are displayed on the Green website and asked you which of those values you disagree with, you stated that you didn't disagree with any of them. I also pointed out that neither the Republican nor Democrat sites show any of the values those parties hold. Your response was, "Values change from election to election." Not true, Eldheler. Values remain constant, it's the party ~platform~ that changes from election to election as world events force platforms to shift. Now, the obvious logical question follows: If you support a particular political party's values.. why would you not
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: also support the political party that holds those values? You see, you shouldn't support a particular party just because your mum says it's the "right" party.. especially since it's quite obvious that your mum is an uneducated voter.. you should support the party that holds the same values that you hold. By supportng a president who has lied about the reasons for going to war, you support corruption in your politicians. How can you possibly support a politician who has lied to his country about the reasons for initiating a war for god's sake?
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: _Dilandau_.. let me see if I have this right: These folks believe what they read on a site that posts a link to a site that sells.. um.. "the hottest female action figures in the world"? ie: slasher type babes in school girl uniforms. And a link that points to a site offering free desktops of their "Dusty Girls"? Oh, and let's not forget the "Conservative Dating Service" link. heh.. sorry, but that ~is~ funny.
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: By the way, could someone in this forum post a link to any factual information on www.moorewatch
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: Are you folks here at the Bush Supporter's wiki aware that you're indirectly hooking kids up with porn sites? Nice going there folks, ya'll might wanna consider taking down that link.
2005-04-15 [Kyrinn]: Ok, [kduncan] tell me HOW? How is it our fault? Parents should be keeping track of their kids themselves. I get very tired of hearing ppl blame everyone else for their problems. And that, my friend, is something parents should know and deal with, not Bush, not us.
2005-04-15 [Kyrinn]: anyone iwth an internet connection can potentially get to a porn site. So, you could be responsible for getting kids to porn sites..
2005-04-15 [Kyrinn]: Michael Moore is full of enough manure to fertilize 100 crops. You do know that he goes to other countries and bad mouths the US (Not just Bush) and they love him for it. Then he comes back here and whines. and puts out propoganda poop like that peice of dung 9/11.. Yes, I said propoganda (and I may have misspelled that 8B)
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: Kyrinn.. listen carefully: You have a link at the top of this wiki that links to webcam porn. I did not put that link there, the owners of the Bush Supporter's wiki put it there. A site you folks push is linked directly to pornography. I check out the links I post. Did anyone who owns this wiki actually go any further to check out the moorewatch weblog owner's sites to see what they post there? Research, hon.. you have to do your research.
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: After all, the link to the owner's site is posted directly on the splash page of moorewatch. Quite honestly, you should be embarrassed to have link like that posted as proof of what you say here. But, if you feel that the information provided in the sole link you've posted is proof enough of your pro-Bush remarks.. I can live with that.
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: Ok, Kyrinn, you say I might be responsible for directing kids to porn sites? Here are the links I have posted in my Elftown house: http://www.nrd
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: And here you go, Kyrinn.. some information on conducting research using the internet. http://www.sou
2005-04-15 [Dil*]: Ack, yes, I went to the moorewatch.com site and the first thing I said to myself was..'what the..this is a web blog' and 'conservative dating service' which was actually pretty comical if you look at it. And propoganda for what??
2005-04-15 [Dil*]: Bush projects himself as a simple, good, churchman who just wants to go do good for the world. But, he is using his faith as a propaganda device. A simple christian man wouldn't use his faith towards his own political ends.
2005-04-15 [kduncan]: Here's an excellent article on propaganda. http://www.pro
2005-04-15 [Kyrinn]: You have way too much spare time there, Bucko. Tell me do you live and breathe this all day long? Its rather amusing to me to see you typing so much to convince me, since its not really working. Also, this is NOT my wiki, I am merely a person who feels the same as the ones who started this page. Pointing your finger at me will not change that fact. The reason that I am on this page is that I SUPPORT BUSH. I Dont agree with all he has done, but he was and still is the best man for the job. No amount of bickering will change that, you can talk through your butt all you want, and I have listened. But treating me like I am ignorant is really NOT the way to get your point across.
2005-04-16 [Kyrinn]: Try TACT. The reason I have a problem with the Democrats in this country is because of their need to take this as a personal attack and they ahve to drag the emotions into it. BEing emotional is a part of being human, and I have had my moments. But the Democrats I know all jumped at the chance to whine, while the Republicans and Independants listened, did their own research, and made an educated show of their beliefs and feelings instead of looking like loons.
2005-04-16 [Kyrinn]: Its pointless to argue with someone like you two, really. Its like beating a dead horse, why expend the energy? I know you wont listen, and Im done listening to you. Cya.. *Queen wave* ^^
2005-04-16 [kduncan]: Kyrinn, I never said this was your wiki, did I? And do you realise you're using a common propaganda technique yourself? Name calling and insults. If you have little else to ffer in way of arguing your position, then yes, you are ignorant. You say to try tact? Let's see here: Kyrinn, "..you can talk through your butt all you want.." Kyrinn, "and that is a load of rat poo" You haven't offered once single source of factual data yet, Kyrinn. You're quick to insult, but you offer no data to back up anything you say: no good sources of information or any sources that can be used as starting points for research? Instead you defend moorewatch.com as a valid site. You're right about
2005-04-16 [kduncan]: one thing though: when you don't have the ammunition necessary to do battle the best thing to do is retreat. I'm happy to see that you know your limitations.
2005-04-16 [KimoN]: lol...i like this guy...kdun i salute you
2005-04-16 [Dil*]: 61 bush supporter members here, any want to defend their ideas?"I don't attack people on their opinions and beliefs, I challenge them." -quote [Doormat]
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: Thanks, KimoN. I think this has turned into another Bush Hater's wiki. I see little support here for Bush.
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: And thanks, _Dilandau_, I thought it was a good site as well. You'll note: the page owner lists actual hard copy references.. and no bikini clad chicks or porn links are needed to er.. promote the author's information.
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: I find it quite interesting that Ertakano brought up Executive Order 12598 and one of the Bush Supporters said, "And what IS Exec order 12958? Am I just supposed to take your word for it that it is a good thing?" This illustrates an excellent point which those who support the Bush Hater's wiki bring up over and over: No.. you're not supposed to take anyone's word at face value, you're supposed to do your own research and your own thinking. And that's the problem with this wiki and most Bush supporters in general: They don't go beyond the headlines and the political propoganda to actually research what is going on and what is being said.
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: How many executive orders are there?? How many years? Can you name any executive order in the next five minutes that has been passed? Did you know that the president can contest one a YEAR???
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: Oh, and I could point out that one of you (at least) Does not LIVE in this country and should not be telling us what is good for us. Straighten out your own country first.
2005-04-20 [Maurer's conclusions]: So from what I gather, I think the people you are referring to are from Canada and Sweden. Could you please point out what great flaws mar those nations?
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: Name every law and US commercial code as well.. You know how many executive orders are that are passed every year? One of you in here blasting the hardest about Bush is not even in this country. Straighten out your own country first before you go around telling us how we need to be.. Bush Haters put blinders on worse than supporters, they dont listen to anything past the ends of their noses. im done listening, yet again. Arguing with you is going to get me no where, and you are pathetic little sacks of meat if you find pride in coming into this page to spout your idiotic view. Im done.
2005-04-20 [Maurer's conclusions]: Executive Order 13374 was the last one to be passed, so I assume that would be the number of how many there are. As to one per year, here are some stats for 2004 – E.O. 13324 - E.O. 13368 (45 Executive orders issued).
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: Ertarkano, if I did that, I would be like them, and no thanks, I wont sink to their level.
2005-04-20 [Maurer's conclusions]: Why should we be forced to do your research? You persist in saying that non-Americans have no right to come here, but first of all, I am an American citizen, and second of all, even if there are some 'foreigners' here, why should they not be allowed to voice their opinions? Bush's blundering decisions affect the whole world.
2005-04-20 [Maurer's conclusions]: Face it Kyrinn, you don't know anything about what goes on outside of the US and are therefore unable to name any problems in these nations.
2005-04-20 [Dil*]: Well for one, it became an international issue when you guys decided to attacked Iraq. The American govt has screwed around with loads of govts in the world in the past. It's probably another one of those coups.
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: You are assuming. You should be filling this page with exxecutive orders. Do you know what they represent? And you said ISSUED, not passed. One Executive order per term is usually allowed uncontested. An EO is passed into law when they are not contested afet like 60 days. They dont post EOs for all the world to see. A president can pass one EO without it being contested. That does not limit him to one. But you are not listing all of them, or what they mean. Right now they are just numbers on a page, and that doesnt mean much to the average American. Tell me what they mean, instead of spouting out numbers, and MAYbe Ill listen. I know a few Executive orders myself.
2005-04-20 [KimoN]: Thats right if anyone thinks that American values and affairs do not affect anyone outside the Us they couldnt have their eyes more wide shut.
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: Ertarkano, do you know every law written in this country? I mean, apparently you do. Every Commercial Code? I don't. I admit it. I don't know everything. I don't want to know everything. I earn a living. It is not my responsibility to ensure the world is perfect. Only my little part. They are allowed their opinions, but they are not american citizens. As to "blundering" leaders. He is not the only one, read your history books.
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: My first responsibility is to my home and family. My second is to my community. The third is to my state. My fourth is to my country. The rest of the world comes last. Sorry, I beleive in dealing with my own problems first. For people who feel a wider social responsibility
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: Kyrinn, Ertarkano gave a specific number, all you had to do was look it up. Again, these can be googled. Just type in executive order, and the number.. and there you go. It's really that simple.
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: KimoN, I believe that it is our actions that affect people. Thank you for your generalization about Americans. That leads to ignorance.
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: Good god, Kyrinn, you seem to think that having a job is an excuse for not nkowing what is going on in the world. Most people in Elftown have jobs or school.. or even both. I have a family.. and yes, a job. A job and a half in fact.. that doesn't excuse me from knowing what's going on in the country in which I live.. or in the world at large. The rest of the world does not "come last" the entire earth and its health is the responsibility of every single person living on it.
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: Kduncan, if you cite something, explain it. Even a brief two word explanation suffices. When you have a debate at home with your friends, do you look up everything? How am I supposed to care about a number with no significance attached to it?
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: I know what goes on in the world. But I will not let it control my life. Or let you control me by insulting what I may or may not know. On the subject of generalization
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: um.. I posted the number of an executive order you questioned. Google it. Prove you know how to look something up. Here's your challenge: prove you know how to read an executive order.
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: Support and agree are NOT the same thing. Its pointless to argue with close minded people, so tootles!
2005-04-20 [Kyrinn]: and [kduncan]... WHy? If you cant sway me through your pointless argument, why should I? You attached no significance to it to make me want to look it up. Bye! ^^
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: Kyrinn, you're the one who challenged the executive order posted (no, I did not originally post it) without knowing anything about it. Most resonable people at least look up an item before they challenge it. Since you have the number of the order (YOU are the one who originally challenged it after all) it's incumbent upon you to look it up and state why you're challenging it. However, if you are unable to do so.. we understand. It's probaly not among the links at moorewatch since, well, it's not really hate based or porn based.. it's just an executive order. I think you ought to follow your own advise, Kyrinn, and not generalise other people who disagree with what you say and/or believe.
2005-04-20 [Maurer's conclusions]: Why would you want to look it up? From what I have heard, you seem to only care about what goes on right around you.
2005-04-20 [KimoN]: Im talking about the present US government which has affected the world in drastic ways. Any i dont agree with a lot of it. You condone this government which is what bothers me.
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: It's odd, she questioned whether it was a good thing because of the fact.. and I'm assuming here.. that it came from a person who opposes Bush, yet she won't even look it up. She talks about us being "close-minded"
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: Here's the difference between Bill Clinton and George Bush as people who strive to do their best. Bill Clinton: grew up supported by a working single mother who had to accept public support (welfare) to raise her kids. Paid his own way through college with the help of scholarships, ultimately becoming a Rhodes scholar. Was a successful attorney before becoming Governor of Arkansas.
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: George Bush: Failed to get into a Texas college, so got into Harvard on the basis of his family money and name where he could only manage to maintain a "C" average in Business Administration
2005-04-20 [Maurer's conclusions]: http://www.cou
2005-04-20 [Dil*]: That's interesting.., yes, bush supporters can you give us something to go on by?? Like a single link..either than the blog moorewatch.com
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: I don't see many Bush supporters showing their faces around here lately, maybe we scared them off.
2005-04-20 [kduncan]: Counterpunch has some really great articles. I had Counterpunch in my list of Fav's (before AOL deleted me Fav's for me.. thank you very much AOL), thanks for posting the link and reminding me about Counterpunch.
2005-04-21 [Tiger Shark]: know what I hate? I hate people who post their political ideas on whatever the media posts. don't you hate that? it's like people aren't capabile of thinking for themselves. Are people really that idiotic?
2005-04-21 [kduncan]: Alot of people are, Tiger Shark, after all.. look at how many people were taken in by the political ads for Bush's re-election.
2005-04-21 [Dil*]: I honesty think we do kinda scare them away..I mean any that go to bush haters..well, they get kinda scared away..
2005-04-21 [farfy girl]: LOL! Taken in?? You think that people just voted for him because of the political ads when Kerry was way richer than him? As far as your accusations of his history go, I don't know about those other things, but isn't the thing about him missing a physical that whole memo thing? (Correct me if I'm wrong) If so, we all know how reliable your sources are... If you're gonna compare Bush and Clinton, you fail to point out that he was the first president to be officially impeached, and was a sexual deviant. Maybe one of the reasons that there aren't many Bush supporters around is because they actually HAVE LIVES. Ever heard of it before?
2005-04-21 [kduncan]: farfy girl, both Kerry and Bush spent approximately the same amounts on their campaigns: around 250 million each.
2005-04-21 [kduncan]: No, the thing about the physical wasn't the memo thing, the information about him missing the physical is well documented and admitted to by Bush himself. Oh, and farfy girl.. look at the only link you've posted in your wiki, ie: moorewatch.com
2005-04-21 [kduncan]: er.. sexual deviant? Now you're referring to a male who has a heterosexual affair as a deviant?? um.. ok. But, please, explain to those of us who are obviously un-enlightened
2005-04-21 [kduncan]: farfy girl, if having a life means having a family and a job and a half (CFI, which stands for Certified Flight Instructor.. fully instrument and multi-engine rated, of course.. and drawing instructor at a local gallery).. then yes.. I have a life.
2005-04-21 [kduncan]: _Dilandau_, yeah, I noticed that. Seems they can't hold their own in a discussion. Leastwise.. not that I've seen so far.
2005-04-21 [Tiger Shark]: you know, I live in an area where everyone is swayed into thinking Bush sucks, which is what the media tells them. I hate living in NY
2005-04-21 [Kyrinn]: You are wondering why we arent all arguing with you? First, Farfy girl said it best, supporters have LIVES. And you completely missed the point of anything I said. I care aboutwhat goes on in the world, but if I cant take care of my family, I can hardly qualify to help the world. You are missing the forest for the trees, all of you haters who feel the need to blather on. I worry about the world, but I am NOT going to ignore my duties at home, at work, and to my child. Are you saying that I cant be concerned first for my family? I do what I can for them first and formost. I do contribute to charities,I do what I can to help others.
2005-04-21 [Kyrinn]: You haters remind me of those commercials on TV, showing a bunch of ppl standing around a faucet that is on full blast, all talking big about how someone should do something about it. That is all you are doing in here, running your mouths, you seem to have an insult for everyone, and that makes you come across as juvenile BULLIES in a school yard. If all you can do is insult, you are not worth the effort to debate with.
2005-04-21 [Lioness123]: not all of us are like that, so don't address us that way. I would never insult anyone on purpose during a debate, so be careful who you're calling a HATER.
2005-04-21 [Tiger Shark]: as I have been saying, but it seems like everyone ignores me because I don't throw insults or raise my voice. like I'm not worth talking to because I don't argue
2005-04-21 [Tiger Shark]: ^_^ I'm not completely ignored!
2005-04-21 [Ylaraniala Majere]: *gives a loud whistle*
2005-04-21 [Tiger Shark]: see what I mean? you have to raise yor voice to be heard around here. that's another thing I hate. besides, people who despize Bush, he's elected, there's no reason to flame him. besides, he can't run again. jeeze, that's the common sense I wish people had -.-
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